Why It’s Worth It | Is there a new way to think about growth and creativity? What about finding connection and vulnerability and dealing with the challenges of procrastination and shame? Often, what we assume is “just the way it is” doesn’t have to be that way. Science shows us that we don’t have to be stuck in who we are. Luckily for us, nothing can demonstrate this more than hearing someone else’s story.

In this episode of his Rethinking podcast, Adam Grant speaks with comedian, actor, screenwriter and wickedly funny Mae Martin. Buckle up for a rollercoaster ride through the mind of a comedy maverick!

Adam kicks off by highlighting Mae’s impressive achievements. From Netflix specials to award-winning TV, they’ve been there, done that, and probably written a joke about it. Mae shares candid insights and experiences, revealing the magic of being present and responsive – skills that enrich comedic performance and daily life. They introduce the whimsical concept of “snow globes” to describe the unique experiences we gather and share. So often, conversations devolve into a snow globe fest (everyone grabbing a story from their “memory shelves” and shaking away at it impatient to speak) rather than participants stopping to appreciate and connect over a single person’s shared “snow globe” story. This metaphor sets the stage for a deeper exploration into human interaction and the art of genuinely listening rather than just waiting for the next turn to speak.

Adam and Mae discuss the differences and similarities between stand-up comedy and improvisation and how both require a degree of presence and adaptability (even though stand-up is more structured). They stress the importance of reading the room and being able to adjust one’s performance accordingly. This skill is well transferred to our daily lives—reading the world around us and adapting to it will help us engage and connect so much better with others.

The conversation takes an interesting turn as it delves into the challenging topics of procrastination and shame. Adam explains the research on procrastination as the avoidance of negative emotions (not laziness!) and on shame as a dysfunctional manifestation of an evolutionary mechanism to protect us from reputational damage. Deep, we know! But it makes so much sense when you hear Adam and Mae discuss it, especially in the context of their own lived experience.

Background | Adam speaks with Mae Martin, a Canadian-born comedian, actor, and screenwriter based in the UK. Mae is known for their stand-up comedy, Netflix special Sap, and their work on TV shows such as Feel Good and The Flight Attendant. Additional highlights include: 

• The power of presence: Mae emphasizes the importance of being present and genuinely listening in both comedic settings and everyday interactions. This approach allows for more authentic connections and better improvisation, focusing on genuinely understanding others rather than simply waiting for our chance to speak.
• Reframing procrastination: Adam shares research suggesting that procrastination is often driven by the avoidance of negative emotions rather than laziness. Understanding the emotional root of our procrastination can help us develop better strategies to overcome it. He encourages us to consider what emotions we might be avoiding when we procrastinate and address them directly.
• The “snow globe” concept in human interaction: Mae shares the idea that we collect our experiences as “snow globes”—memories we collect and then pull down in conversations to share with others. We tend to listen impatiently to others, waiting to share our story. Instead, if we consciously try to be interested in others’ “snow globes” and resist the urge to immediately share our own, we can more readily connect with others.
• Balancing structure and spontaneity in creativity: Both structure (as in stand-up) and spontaneity (as in improv) play crucial roles in creativity. Finding a balance between preparation and flexibility can lead to better performances and more innovative ideas. 
• Addressing shame and self-criticism: Both Adam and Mae open up about shame and its often-dysfunctional role in our lives, as the harmful internalization of someone else’s standards. One way to navigate shame-inducing triggers involves asking if what we are feeling is actually in response to a standard that we value and, if the answer is no, learning to let it go.  
• The value of vulnerability in connection: Being open about personal experiences and struggles can create meaningful connections. Likewise, showing vulnerability in our interactions often leads to deeper, more authentic relationships.
• Rethinking ‘failure’ in comedy and life: Instead of seeing unsuccessful attempts as failures, view them as necessary steps in learning and creativity. Embrace the idea that “bombing” is part of growth and improvement in any field.

Source | ReThinking:  The Art of Vulnerability and Connection with Mae Martin – April 30, 2024

About | Adam Grant is a well-known organizational psychologist and wildly popular Wharton professor. He is an accomplished writer, a profound thinker, and a thorough researcher, covering various subjects to help people discover purpose and motivation and lead more creative and generous lives. Adam’s content includes New York Times bestsellers, TED podcasts and talks, columns in various publications and GRANTED, a free email newsletter (sign up on his website!). Adam encourages us to constantly question our ideas and rethink our beliefs.